Announcing the Social Blockchain Working Group
Hello Steemians,
I am excited to inform you of a new Working Group made up of people intent on leveraging their knowledge gained working with Steem to design and develop a new blockchain featuring improved decentralization, distribution, functionality, and usability with a suite of tools that will empower entrepreneurs to build out decentralized social applications on a truly shared and open ecosystem.
The Blockchain Working Group
- Michael Vandeberg (@vandeberg)
- Steve Gerbino (@gerbino)
- @theoretical
- Nathaniel Caldwell (@youkaicountry)
- Andrew Levine (@andrarchy)
- Johan Nordberg (@almost-digital)
- Scott Sallinen (@anyx)
- Aaron Cox (@jesta)
This group, with over 40 years of aggregate blockchain experience, has been meeting over the last few days to discuss various ideas for improving existing blockchain frameworks. We look forward to keeping you informed of our progress.
Haleluya :)
I've recently written about my plans to build a new and better blockchain. It's quite a monumental endeavor for a single person. I'm happy that everyone in this post feels the same way, wants to form a Working Group, and I won't have to go it alone!
Well I don't think they thought of you. 🙈 your post was everywhere even I read it. Why didn't they contact you?
Also a question for you... what... about... my steem investment. In time euro's witness servercosts without witnessing 1 block?
Why not solve this one and do with the 25% steem what it was intended? Develop the chain.
... he is part of the working group.
Are you planning on sticking w DPoS? I'm working on the concept for another algorithm but it's real high level / disjointed at the moment. Will take some time to bring it all together.
Once I figure out how our group can secure the trademark, would be glad to collaborate. I'm more of a general purpose system engineer so would really benefit from one that specializes in software.
Feel free to stop by the @steemflagrewards discord if you would like to get a better feel for where I am coming from not merely technically but also the ethos surrounded the vision.
So the Plan B is in motion :)
I wish you good fortune in the wars to come mate!
What will be the name...it does matter..😎😛
Posted using Partiko Android
I shall await further announcements with bated breath. Thanks for making this happen.
I don't suggest you hold your breath while you wait. Could be holding it for some time.
While we need a basic MVP to prepare for unpredictable events, I reckon a fork that prevents this existential threat to Steem will require careful consideration, meticulous work, and careful testing, and that all takes time.
That's what we need too.
I expect Tron to keep acquiring Steem until it has enough to force consensus, and then fork immediately to commit the NCP and proxy.token. If we want to end up on whatever fork of Steem Tron bungles up, then we don't need these guys discussing what to do.
I don't. I want these guys taking action as needed to make a fork we can be proud of landing on when the SHTF, because it probably is going to, and sooner than later.
You might pick a different team for this task. Have you thought about doing that? I know you're technically competent, far beyond my ability to judge. What do you think can be done to prepare for Tron forking Steem all up?
Tron doesn't need any SP to execute a hard fork since they have the main RPC nodes and pretty clear support from exchanges.
Having SP helps them do it the "normal" way. And frankly idk if anyone told Sun there are more options.
This team isn't a bad team. I just have it on high authority they are not going to make a short term fork of Steem for the community.
They may or may not even ever make a chain. As it stands they just want to rethink the protocol. I think a lot of us want that.
But nothing actionable will come from this team in the short term.
Thank you for sharing your informed understanding.
Excellent team. Initiatives like this one are the ones that corroborate the solidity and the capacity of opportunities that STEEM has. Successes in this new project, friends!
Yeah,the old Steem Dev Team back again and now free of incompetent leadership!
Congrats to that move! The Steem Community is very happy to see, that you guys are keep on working to improve the Steem Blockchain, and hopefully also to finish up the SMT project :-)
Is this "original" team from august 2016?
I am curious because I joined in august 2016 and had zero issues aside from stuff @nedtheshithead did or a few downvote tempertanrums that occurred.
Yes I believe this is the original team aside from Dan Larimer. Nathan Caldwell is a blockchain developer that @theoretical has worked with for a long time and who worked at Steemit later on. @gerbino also began working at Steemit about 1.5 years ago and did much of the work on SMTs.
awesome, I will give you guys a chance with my witnesses votes and check your service out, I respect that you quit Steemit to start a fresh chapter instead of carry the dead weight.
Thanks! We have no intention of running a witness, so please keep on supporting whatever real witnesses you can!
They have zero plans on "improving the Steem Blockchain" and much less so about "finishing SMT".
They think the Steem blockchain, as is, is a failure of design and they are going to create a new blockchain from scratch. I wish they would have shared more information about their plans so the other community members don't have to come pick up their slack.
To reiterate, they are NOT saving the Steem blockchain or planning to continue the Steem community with the existing Steemd code. They are likely not even going to base their code off Steem but thats just my assumption and has no evidence backing it.
These are very specific statements that must have some reason behind it. There seems to be a substantial body of knowledge regarding this team both you and Bernie seem privy to, presumably due to your being witnesses.
It is difficult to make good decisions regarding complex evolutions absent relevant information, and your position on this event indicates that information I am unaware of dramatically affects how it is understood.
What informs your very specific expectations for the direction you expect this team to go?
Thanks!
A source I trust very much
Understood
My kind of thought also..
The thing also is This... The keep the top 20 in the top 20 kind of voting is not that kind of thing buttt I follow the you must have knowledge into the top 20 because their work on the blockchain.
Why even the top 20 why not the top 100 and just steempower based voting instead of 30 votes. That is the real issue... Why smt? We have all ready altcoins?
Steem is broken. The only option is to fork and move on if we don't agree with the way Justin plays the game. The rules are pretty much the same way it used to be when the top 20 witnesses ignored it because they didn't think it would hurt them this much.
But, of course they wouldn't want a fork either (which is clearly the best thing to do now). It would reduce their coin value to almost zero.
If someone is going to develop a new chain, regardless of whether it helps steem or not, I think I'm all in for that. They're not obligated to save us when the solution is obviously in front of us.
Are you speaking for them? I know quite a few of them and they would say that's full of shit.
Just read @blocktrades ' recent post and i am definitely glad to hear that we're moving to a new chain.
Finally, someone is working on a solution rather than bitching about the problem all week on Twitter.
Hopefully, we fix the long-standing broken witness voting system pretty soon. Would want to see new faces who are actually pulling in value.
Isn't that we were all waiting for?!?!
Ok, stupid question 🤣
Sure we were!
Are there ways to join in on the fun when things are kicking off?
(Talking about designing consensus, governance, etc)
For now I would say join the OpenSeed discord server, and once we set up a space specifically for this new project I’ll be sure and update everyone there. But I suspect OpenSeed will play a big part in our project as it can integrate with multiple chains at the same time. For example, in OpenSeed applications users will be able to choose what blockchain they want to use, and we plan to continue support for Steem (or whatever blockchain the Steem community adopts) indefinitely.
I'm there already, sounds good then
Nice.
Exciting! Will be looking forward to the updates!
Great example of something positive coming out of an otherwise turbulent situation. Looking forward to seeing more!
Sounds like it's that time. Plan B in motion 💯 Social Blockchain, I like the name....
Social Blockchain. The creativity just oozes out.
I can only hope that the lines of communication will open and remain open for updates. I will be trying to follow the developments as close as I can, and hope that we see an end product regardless of what happens to Steem Block Chain. I would like to see SBC continue but I do fear that with the complications that any fork Tron tries to do will end in disaster. Do you have a temporary centralized site, Non - Facebook / Twitter that I can bookmark just in case the SBC gets broke and torn asunder? I just do not have the Faith that some do when it comes to Tron doing Hard Forks and updates on the Steem Block Chain.
Well let's see .. they made an announcement of an announcement as @berniesanders put it. They have quite a few replies now on this post, yet they haven't replied to a single person here.
A couple of them have made a top-level comment with some useless remark, but I would say their current "communication" is pretty lacking.
Let's hope the communication improves. (I won't hold my breath, this seems to be very hard for projects in this space)
That was one of the reasons I had to ask, people talk a lot about this project and that project and when questions are asked, we get nothing but blank stares back, like deer caught in the headlights. I really was not expecting much from the former communications director of steemit, after all most of the communications from him were about his own projects, and very little about steemit.
A good plan not to hold our breaths I guess.
Thank you for taking the time to respond.
!ENGAGE 25
Sorry about that, getting around to answering all the questions now. One of my ambitions is to deliver a degree of transparency and communication that is an order of magnitude improvement over common practices. That’s precisely why I wanted to disclose that this group is meeting as soon as possible. First, so that we can begin getting and responding to feedback before any important product decisions have been made, and second so that we can continue to give a stream of updates as we make progress. But what we didn’t want to do was share our individual thoughts on how improvements can be made without disclosing that we are collaborating with the goal of releasing a new product over the long term. Mind you, one of our goals with this product is to benefit the Steem users. I support whatever short term solutions the Steem community embraces and OpenSeed will continue to build tools for Steem app developers as well as continue to support the Steem blockchain indefinitely. Whatever technology we develop will be MIT open source and available to the Steem witnesses to incorporate into the main chain
@netuoso you have received
25 ENGAGEfrom @bashadow!View and trade the tokens on Steem Engine.
Kick-Ass! Can't wait to see what you guys have in mind! Would love to see where there are opportunities to do something together👊
Great initiative @andrarchy ! Perhaps you could take a look at the Reputational Enhanced Delegated Proof-of-Stake (REDPOS) protocol concept for a #socialblockchain and share your thoughts?
Absolutely! Reputation is my personal pet project! Thanks for sharing the info! Feel free to join the OpenSeed discord until we find a better place for group discussions: https://discord.gg/kqnpRH
Great, thanks! The concept behind what would constitute a REDPOS type of protocol is explained here. Feel free to post that link on the #ideas section of the discord channel for future reference if you find it may be of any help.
Very nice, just followed all of you.
Let the era begin!
Exciting times indeed. We will be waiting for the updates and really looking forward to it.
Call it "Phoenix" , the Blockchain that rose from the ashes of STEEM
That is quite a nice name :D
Yes it is!
*asses
Fixed it for ya
I like it! Although I hope that Steem continues and leverages whatever technologies we develop to reach new heights.
So, you basically announced an announcement?
Congrats, you've failed at your job on day 1.
Lol yeah, thanks for pointing that out! What a scam i invested in steemit and they pull this trick and now are like invest in our next one! I’m done investing in social media blockchains, too complicated for me!! Unless they gonna give me fork coins to move with, count me out!!
A partnership was announced, with all the discourse in the community, how can we judge them for appealing to their judgement?
You find an announcement coming from the guy who did NOTHING but shill exactly what @ned told him to for the past 3+ years "appealing"? That's fucking sad.
I am a casual steem user, I blog daily but I dont have time to follow what's going on with each witness personally.
Is there a certain post you think would convince me that this individual doesnt have the best interest of a decentralized social credit system like steem?
Yes, see every single post made on behalf of Steemit. All of the lies contained within those posts were put on this blockchain by @andrarchy. How does that work for you?
So he is like neds secretary?
A bit too harsh...Ned has fooled everybody...well, except for you....but almost everybody.
You too. Ned failed to fool you as well. :)
Also me!
Of course! You would be at the top of the list. We should make an “Undeceived List”.
Bernie, why are you always pissed off??🙃🙃
Eventually the full story will be told.
Did you just announce an announcement?
🤔
Don't worry. I won't tell anyone.
I didn't see anything here...
Just another normal day.
lol
Clearly Justin taught them a thing..or two.
I see the developers that have the most, and most relevant, understanding of Steem code meeting regarding potential improvements to the code - just when Tron is forcing a fork - as extremely important, even existentially for the community.
Clearly, forking is necessarily on the table, and these guys putting their backs into that effort when it becomes necessary is going to be absolutely the best we can hope for in that circumstance.
You seem to disagree. What action would you recommend to enable the community to move forward in the various directions the current situation could go?
This seems to be a long term plan. But the challenge that we are facing is an existential crisis of sorts and need a short term action plan and a long term vision. The word existential crisis is subjective and considers centralization of a public ledger as a (sybil) attack. Forking or otherwise (ie voting out the sybil-attackers) is required to re-establish the fact that Steem is a blockchain.
Right now Steem is a database and NOT a blockchain.
I agree and support short term efforts to establish a better chain for Steemians. Two groups can work on problems at the same time.
Good Job folks. I hope you guys come up with a better project than the Shitshow Steem have become.
I will be following your progress.
We are looking forward to see great project and let it begins 💓🙏💓🙏
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Is this project planning to contribute to the Steem DPoS challenges in the short term (ie in less than 7 day time period) or is this an entirely new initiative not related Steem Blockchain ?
It's a new blockchain. They got your cashpiggy broken because of the keep the top 20 in the top 20 votesystem now it's time for a new cashpiggy on your sidetable.
Its a new project unrelated to the current incidents of Steem
blockchaindatabaseI wouldn’t say this is unrelated to the Steem blockchain, we just don’t know enough yet, but we are not developing anything with such a short time horizon. This is a longer term initiative to re-evaluate all previous design decisions. I support other short term initiatives and believe they have the talent necessary to accomplish their goals.
For the new ones, who have fallen in the middle of the storm unleashed by the purchase of Justin Sun, I think it is good news. Hopefully it will prosper.
Regards.
Happy to help advise on design. I don't know at all what will come next, but let's hope we can avoid further division during these uncertain times.
👆
Agreed
My only input would be to suggest that those involved at the highest levels of this new chain from the devs to the witnesses should not be anonymous. That is to say, they can have any handle they like but their real names should be attached to it and they should not be allowed to have more than one profile. So no one involved at the top of this gets hundreds and thousands of sock-puppet accounts to spew toxicity and propaganda.
I can see why you desire that, but how do you think that could actually be done? The technology doesn't allow those restrictions on users on Steem atm. Do you suggest we install keyloggers on these guys' computers and stream them to Dtube?
Whether it can be done or not doesn't interest me as much as those that do such things come to a clear understanding that it's unethical. And if they can't see that they are mired in delusion which isn't my problem...I get that this type of thing happens in the real world, too, by shell companies and proxies but it's not ethical there either. In the end, do what you want but please don't turn around and talk ethics--attacking Mr.Sun for his self-serving ethics. Again I was only talking about the hierarchical elite who are in positions of authority and never said they shouldn't have handles...
In the end, I've made a decision not to have prolonged dialogue on SM unless there is clear and substantial video evidence that people are somewhat close to what they represent themselves to be.
Well, I have lately come to a somewhat startling conclusion to me that the legacy witnesses and most substantial stakeholders on Steem have long strongly centralized governance, although I still reckon that preferable to the unitary centralization sought by Sun.
I do not recommend unethical behaviour, and I'll leave my record on Steem to stand evidence of my own behaviour. I don't disagree with wanting folks to behave ethically, but my point was more that such is unenforceable here, as IRL. The whole point of DLTs to my understanding is to eliminate the need for policing, to make it impossible to lie, cheat, and steal due to the parameters of the code limiting such behaviour.
Insofar as Steem hasn't, Steem has failed. We can't expect only honest folks to be on Steem, and I haven't noted that happening either. So, the point is to not demand behaviour that can only be enforced with legacy political mechanisms, such as police, and insofar as such behaviour isn't necessitated by the DLT the blockchain has failed to enable society to be ethical by allowing unethical behaviour then to fix the DLT.
I don't think the solution is pledges of chastity. I think it's belts. If Steem doesn't have belts well designed enough, we should tend to that, not demand purity vows and rings. IMHO, of course. Some folks prefer unethical behaviour, but I don't reckon I'm talking to one of them.
Edit: I seem to be a noob, but dunno what you mean by 'SM' at the end of your comment.
Can I vote you guys for witness so I dont have to register for another social media site?
I love the inspiration you all have, I just personally have so much spam from blockchain projects, and I am very OCD about which blockchains I accept in my life, yet even being picky I cant keep up with all these distributed ledgers.
Thank you for Caring, I will sign up if I have too, but if you could just make a side chain on steem that would be great.
Wonderful! I would be happy to contribute if necessary.
Looking forward for the updates :)
You guys were the heart of Steem development, keep me in the loop on your progress. Link me you chat server if you have one.
Nothing like adding some sleaze into the mix of people who are somewhat competent (that excludes @ned's mouthpiece @andrarchy - complete moron!!!
When are the airdrops happening?
I don’t believe this group is working on a hard fork of Steem. Seems they will be designing an entirely new blockchain at some point in the future.
I suspected that but wasn’t 100% sure. Sounds interesting. Hopefully it won’t take them years.
https://steemit.com/blockchain/@theoretical/in-the-beginning-there-was-dpos
That is certainly not the plan. 6 months to a year is probably more what we’re shooting for. Of course the sooner the better, but don’t want to set unrealistic expectations.
I think they'd be fools not to prepare a MVP HF for instant deployment in the event Tron succeeds to consensus and forks Steem all up.
But you may be right. There's various components of Steem that aren't just code, like infrastructure, coordination with front ends, and etc. From @jarvie's response above, I don't think they've coordinated with Steempeak nominally. Anyx runs the node I am using right now, though, so this team has more wherewithal to successfully fork Steem than any other option I've seen.
Which is none. Dunno if these guys are preparing for an emergency fork, even.
Tron is though.
You should learn more about future forks soon enough, based on my educated guess. ;)
This team is not planning on a hard fork at all, as far as I know. Their objective is different and more long-term. It will definitely take more time to develop.
Keep an eye out for any new news in the coming week. You’ll know when you see it.
This is correct.
Well, I hope this team does involve itself in upcoming HF's because it's them I reckon have the greatest experience and highest standards of ethics regarding Steem. I submit that their recent resignations are pretty good evidence of this.
If you have the benevolent consideration and ability, in the event I seem to be missing substantial events, I'd greatly appreciate a ping regarding those events.
Thank you.
We are not working on a hard form at the moment, and current thinking is that it will be a new blockchain farther in the future. Thanks @ats-david for replying.
That's a great team who could achieve a lot. I'm sure you have learnt a lot from the last few years.
Are you going to make the fork of the steem code, and implement SMT, communities, and more features?
That's a great new indeed.
Just don't go with an inflationary based coin, this never worked in our history and will never work in digital history, for many many reasons...
In the real world, there are tools to recover the money of diseased people. with crypto, if you cant find the password, it might as well be lost forever so we do need an inflationary currency, it just doesnt have to be a big one and it should be given through "rewards" rather than be added to the existing balances like it does on steem.
Could you better explain what you mean by this please?
Thanks!
SP increases over time. just for having it.
Bitcoin doesnt have inflation, once all coins are going to be minted, all the miners will only share the dust from transactions which is barely anything. A lot of bitcoin are already gone forever from people losing their wallet and dying. The stupid solution to that is the argument you can go 10 digits behind the comma but at that point, what's the real currency? Bitcoin or satoshis?
I would rather see a permanent 0.95% inflation rate through rewards but without the SP inflation
It would be impractical to stablish an inflation rate based on an unknown number of inaccessible wallets; one solution would be for users to set a trusted recover account, to where the funds will be sent after 'x' time of it being inactive.
It's all Bitcoin, divisibility is one of the requirements for good money. The thing is that it doesn't need to be the currency, but the monetary base in which the whole ecosystem is baked to.
The thing that seems to be broken is the way Steem is created/distributed, we can't expect growth from inflation/printing, it's never worked in our history since ancient empires.
there's no difference between 21 million bitcoin divisible by 0.00000001s and 21 000 000 000 000 bitcoin divisible by 0.01 but it sure as shit would be easier to use since it would be more similar to what everyday people use.
Bitcoin could keep a 2.5 btc reward per block forever after it reaches 21 million and it wouldn't have a dramatic decrease in value. Inflation isnt the issue, it's unpredictable inflation that is.
Ok, I thought you meant Steem didn't have rewards =p. Thanks for setting me straight.
I recall transaction fees going to 25% at BTC's peak. That's not dust. That's boulders. For all practical purposes it's the same thing as inflation, meaning BTC isn't inflation proof at all, but subject exactly to unpredictable inflation in the worst way.
As we approach the halving, I expect mining to continue to consolidate further, and centralize the power of miners over BTC. AXA may already have optimally have done so, and if that's the case, further consolidation isn't necessary.
Either way, I reckon BTC has failed to resist inflation, and failed to prevent centralization OR it's subjection to legacy financial mechanisms. I note the day BTC crashed from it's peak was the day it's futures market was instituted. I am grateful for the example of how legacy banksters control assets that event provided, if not for the control is reveals.
Are you aware of any proposals which address the problem of centralization caused by our system of Stake Based Voting for Witnesses?
Why can we not have registered voters with their real identities and not have the vote register attached to the Steemit accounts at all?
We plan to resolve the issues of centralization and voting without the need for KYC
How?
You were like a breath of fresh air at the town hall thing
I have every confidence in your ability to deliver in terms of coding, I sincerely hope you have a good brand name. You will need it to succeed.
This is more like the kind of stuff I want to see!
Perfect then!
Awesome, so if successful this will take all value from steem?
Why don't you try building something that will benefit steem.
This doesn't actually seem like it will help steem?
i dunno how many people heard him on palnet but @andrarchy only "talks" about his intentions of not wanting to split the community, but an announcement like this only points in that direction. keep in mind that justin "talks" about his intentions of not being interested in steem governance when his actions are completely the opposite. it seems like they have something in common where they seriously need to work on their "head of communications" skills.
I personally feel that we should take a breather and see how things could go right if it is possible, and not to jump into conclusion that this will end up a chain split.
yes. lemme just add that 8 people calling "a new blockchain" a benefit to steem is the quickest jump to a conclusion.
It is our plan to help Steem. Whatever technologies we develop will be open source and available to the Steem witnesses. The whole purpose of this communication is to inform Steemians of our project so that they can provide their feedback and ensure that our solution does benefit Steem. Thanks for sharing the fact that this was not clear.
but ultimately it is a step away from Steem, right? Would you support a HF without the ninja mined stake?
I would. Yes
happy to hear!
could you pls stop saying that it's gonna benefit steemians? you don't own the community, so i dunno why you think you can decide that for every individual on this platform? what are the reasons that makes you 100% sure that it's not gonna harm them?
why not lay out your reasons and let people decide for themselves? you don't have to sugarcoat it with words like "improved decentralization" or "40 years of aggregate blockchain experience". people will do that for you if they believe in you.
you guys could've uploaded a recorded discussion on how this new blockchain is gonna benefit steemians and asked for community feedback, but instead you make an announcement like some politician telling everyone that it's somehow gonna be good for them while giving out no details whatsoever.
This is like saying bitcoin developing a social site that everyone in crypto flocks to will benefit steem. They are two competing projects. Sure in a weird round about way, one could always copy the other, but at that point it may be too late to matter as one will win. There will always be winners and losers and you guys building something that gets right what steem got wrong hardly seems like a benefit to steem.
The most likely outcome?
If you are successful, your project does well and steem dies. And the reason you are pushing it here is you are trying to pull the community from here to your project. If not, why even announce it all?
The more experiments the better.
Agreed!
Hell yeah!
I am in!
I want to like this but i have some issues. In this sensitive time where several groups are already trying to figure out solutions to the apparent hostile activities of Tron that apparently pushed many of you from steemit inc... you decide to put more uncertainty into this whole situation. I'm guessing it's not intentional and I'm uncertain if it will be fully problematic.
You gave Not actual solutions but an announcement that you're gonna take a hack at it... with no time frame and no specifics.
I think many of you are very capable obviously and learning from steem's journey could probably lead you to do wonderful things. And in theory you could have something soooo much better ... on paper. But that doesn't always translate... and here you cast doubt on what everyone else is ACTUALLY doing... not planning on doing, but really actually doing right now. It just feels like I worry that people hear "hey don't try to fix anything we're gonna give a shot at it eventually". There is something to be said about everything steem can do even in it's flawed way and I don't want to see people stop posting just because they think another group is gonna have something better... MAYBE... EVENTUALLY.
I support groups working on different things but I just want the rest of the audience reading this to understand that this isn't a concrete promise, this isn't an actual blockchain, this isn't anything until it actually happens. We can cheer them on and then let the market place of ideas decide if their time was worth it.
I am a bit mystified at this doubt claim. All I read they are doing is meeting to discuss how the code can be improved. If that somehow casts doubt on Steempeak and the excellent work you've been doing there, I missed that completely. If you're referring to casting doubt on some other actions being taken, I missed how their statement is a comment on anything else, except that there's almost certainly going to be a hardfork, and we'd better be ready.
I am kind of surprised at the strong reactions I am reading in the comments here, and really feel I'm missing some essential information. That makes me feel incompetent to rationally judge the current situation.
Any light you could share would be very appreciated.
Thanks!
This is exactly how we meant this to be interpreted. Definitely not trying to confuse people or encourage them to stop posting. Just wanted to get information out there as soon as we could.
I reckon open communications is critical more than ever now that we face overt and covert threats on Steem. Folks may not think of it, but it's almost a certainty that others are deceiving us regarding their intentions and purposes during this crisis.
Folks that state clearly what they intend and do that will provide obvious refugia when the confusion of deception stirs the community.
Thanks!
I would be much more excited about it if they were working on ways to improve steem, not kill it in a roundabout way.
@wattersblue,
Agreed with you! Adsolutely!
Come on.. Someone else is destroying it and we all know him
I know you will not fail even Bernie told you today, you've fail in day one. Failure doesn't mean defeat it's a good teacher you know.
Sounds interesting good luck in your new endeavor.
truly manslaughtering system ?
with hidden centered powers of a few witnesses
taking investment away from common investors again ?
No Way.
You'd better hardfork and improve the existing steem for commons.
Your Dream is only Good for the developers wanting payment from common investors !
Good news @andrarchy I hope to see your informers about your progress and be part of them. Count on it.
Thanks for the heads up, would your group be willing to take on maintenance of STEEM as part of @enginewitty's Proposal # 77.
Doesn't sound like they're sticking around.
That is why I posed the question, as to whether they would help out or as you say are they abandoning us.
Abandon is such an ugly word 😔
Tron is forking Steem. I don't see us holding off his constant purchase of more Steem until he has the requisite stake to govern Steem at his sole option, and then he'll fork.
Steem isn't sticking around.
When that fork comes, what should the fork we go to look like? Should we go with Tron? I probably won't, because I don't expect Steem to enable it's community to remain viable after Tron seizes it.
What do you think the fork we land on should look like? Isn't that what the Steem Team should be discussing?
These guys aren't Tron. All I see is current and former Steempeeps working on chains which will not be Steem but something else entirely based on Steem. I can't think of any fork or split of a coin that was better off than the original. All the BTC forks have failed in comparison to Bitcoin. Ethereum classic was a flop. Tron hasn't said anything about forking Steem. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Blockchain History ...
Ethereum Classic is actually the original ETH chain, so technically speaking ... Ethereum (the fork of ETH Classic) is better than ETC.
Litecoin (a fork of Tenebrix) is better than Tenebrix (which is ded).
NEM (a fork of NXT) is better than NXT (even prior to the new codebase).
Monero (a fork of Bytecoin) is better than Bytecoin (even prior to the new codebase).
I'm sure there are plenty of other lesser examples, but these are the most glaring and popular.
Many of the people who worked on BTC worked on Ethereum. Many of the people who worked on Steem worked on EOS.
I think Tron has shown it certainly intends to fork asap, as Roy Liu has repeatedly indicated they reckon reducing powerdown time dramatically necessary, and from various statements regarding their plans for Steemit, Inc., and Steem. It's also been reported to me that Sun has offered proxy.token voters things that could only be provided by a fork.
There's little doubt in my mind that Tron will undertake a fork asap.
I appreciate your courteous reply. Thanks!
Correct
How so? We’re still here. And if your proposal got funding I’m sure we’d be happy to contribute to the Steem code base. This is still a very new effort. Part of the reason we wanted to make this announcement is so that we could begin getting suggestions from Steemians and explore different opportunities like your proposal, which seems like a great idea btw!
Yes I think we would consider it.
Is this somehow better than forking out a new "social network" from the original but now corrupted steem?🤔
ME too!
I can't wait to see what you clever people come up with. I have no doubt it will be better than what we got right now. In the meantime let's choose a pseudonym for @theoretical, I suggest Theo Retical :)
Thanks @andrarchy for coming on the town hall today and making this project transparent right from the start. What an incredible list of people! It gives me hope for the future! ❤️
Yeah but what about the steem invested?
Where will the fund be from? Can you really think it is enough for supporting money to developer using SPS?
You will be definitely failed! We don't need those who fragment STEEM blockchain. Justin Sun is rather much better than you. He has been continuously buying STEEM, and ready to reorganize new STEEM team.
We don't need you. Just GO AWAY From STEEM. You are just trying to fragment STEEM blockchain. If we don't support Justin Sun, STEEM will be freaking shit coin.
GET THE OUT OF HERE! I don't know what you had been doing as the previous position 😏
How incredibly hostile.
A sister chain where justin's and his supporters' stake is forked out? Yes pls!
A brand new chain? Not interested.
If ninja mined coins are removed from the fork, all ninja-mined coins should be.
Awesome. Scrap this bogus 'witness' system and you will be off to a great start!
only interested if there is going to be an airdrop to existing steemians...
Yeah! Airdrop on time invested servers rented euros the original euros invested. This all locked up for 5 years and released in time based spent on steem.
sure why not...
I’m certainly in favor of that idea!
why don't you make these "meetings" public? rather than keeping everything a secret thinking the community is just gonna agree with everything you come up with? are your communications gonna be as malicious as justin's?
The meetings we have had were mainly focused on agreeing to this announcement and the phrasing of it :) The plan is to do as much in public as possible. My preference would be through a Steem community
thank you. i hope you understand that a general statement like "a new blockchain" is to a lot of people just as ambiguous as justin's "token swap". i also have no idea how the 8 of you came to a conclusion that a new blockchain is gonna benefit steemians, or exactly how you plan on delivering "improved decentralization".
i'm pissed off that dictators like ned/justin are still controlling the blockchain, but i have nothing against you wanting to work on projects that motivate you the most. perhaps instead of a single post, there might be less confusion if you guys record a discussion and let people decide for themselves whether it's gonna be a benefit or not.
Great idea, thanks for the feedback
Awesome
Wow... :( At this point I'd really just like to see some good witnesses come in and take a pledge to not freeze users funds... Few people will trust the new blockchain after what happened.
One of our goals as a group is to ensure that these current events can never be repeated. One large stakeholder should never have been able to take control of the chain and the witnesses should not have been able to freeze funds. Now I support the witnesses because they were effectively responding to a Sybil attack, but the point is that they never should have HAD to respond to such an attack.
Wouldn't just adjusting the witness voting parameters on steem be more sensible than redesigning and creating an entirely new blockchain? Not to mention that if you do this successfully it likely kills the steem blockchain and any value associated with it (regardless of what you say about steem theoretically being able to adopt the changes).
Good to know that all this knowledge stay with the community.
This move deserve a !BEER and we hopefully get soon some facts.
View or trade
BEER.Hey @andrarchy, here is a little bit of
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Great..
But what about the euros invested I invested in steem and all the work? And that multiple witness servers I paid for more then a year to witness not one block?
A new chain everybody begins a new chain? Now allready 2 different groups? You know that binance
Unfroze 12million tron right? So that's liquid now.
Why not make steem better? The development fund steemit inc pre mined is 25% of steem. You can do something with that right? Mr. Sun can say and shout what he wants I'm not crazy and not mad at him trying to do business his way. 1 simple question.... where is the development fund created to maintain the steemblockchain? How did the development get paid then and now?
Good luck. May the best #NewNewSteem win!
Or alternatively we all find out respective niche and all win.
Don't really feel a necessity to be an either or guy.
In any case, I have been deeply thinking of alternative designs to Steem and entertaining the prospect of recreating the same experience (or more robust perhaps) but developing a different mechanism for consensus.
Currently, think we have all become well appraised of the shortfalls of purely stake based DPoS.
Totally agree. Feel free to join the OpenSeed discord until we find a better place for group discussions: https://discord.gg/kqnpRH
If youre going to do this... Please consider melding this with the idea of a hardfork thats floating around.
I agree. There should be a hardfork so the community can work, post and stay together. This will give the community a sense of continuity otherwise we risk the danger of community falling apart and fading away, especially if the new chain launch is going take a while.
Our project is longer term and is not intended to compete with that effort. I wish them luck and because all of our technology with be open source they will be able to take advantage of anything good we release.
I think thats fair. Seeing where the Steem ship is heading i think ill be paying attention to your guys project.
Glad you feel that way, thanks for the feedback
Please check this recent discussion with @blocktrades on evolution of software design: https://steempeak.com/cryptocurrency/@borislavzlatanov/re-blocktrades-q6ffot
Team spirit is everything in a working group
!giphy powerful
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giphy is supported by witness untersatz!
Sad and dissapointing to read that their is no Intention via SPS to bring SMT‘s into Production. But maybe I‘m missing a Part ...
That’s not off the table! This is meant to be the beginning of the conversation. Ideas like this are more than welcome and I’d be happy to discuss it with the team.
I think that it is very important for STEEM that this last feature is still activated. And I also think that this would enhance the reputation of ex-Steemit Devs in the industry. That they delivered the product that many doubted...
Hey @jarvie I understand your issues and I am confident we can alleviate your concerns. We certainly did not intend to encourage people to stop using Steem. OpenSeed will continuing building tools for Steem application developers and plans to support Steem (or another fork of Steem if that’s what the community chooses) indefinitely.
I apologize for the bad timing but we wanted to make as many people aware that we are meeting as soon as we could so that we could have as much of this conversation in public as possible. We want to communicate with amazing Steem app developers like SteemPeak while we’re in the process of developing our technology, instead of making decisions in a dark room and then telling you all “how it’s going to be.” Again I apologize for the bad timing, that being said, in these difficult times it’s hard to know whether there is such a thing as a “good time” for anything. No community in the world is as important to me as the Steem community. I believe I have proven that.
Whatever we do, I am 100% confident that it will benefit Steemians. But in order to make sure it does, we’ll need your valuable feedback.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and I look forward to continuing the conversation.
I can accept that. I appreciate the response. I do believe in the marketplace of ideas and still have confidence everything will work out well. I just want to create a location for content creators to really feel at home and a place where they and their viewers dont feel any strong dependencies on any of us.
Could not agree more. I look forward to demonstrating that our goals are aligned :)
Best news we've had since the Tron acquisition. What about @roadscape?
Congratulations @andrarchy!
Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following categories:
If you'd like this product is to benefit the Steem users, then fork Steem Blockchain and let's get rid of Steemit Stake and Justin Sun.
I just can't say it any plainer than that.
Really looking forward to see how it will work much better decentralised!
.........This group, with over 40 years of aggregate blockchain experience........., this is ridiculously falsified and you want me to believe that, how could you say a thing like that "over 40 years of blockchain experience"?, then, how old is blockchain industry?. Please convince me with better theories.
It's one of those marketing things. There's 8 people so they'll need an avg of 5 years each to make the 40 years.
Lovely to hear you're back on the blockchain!
Where can we find out more about it. Just heard about it on crim's show.
It is definitely a great move. Lets hope for fair play.Great days ahead
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So do you want us to dump steem now or let you cash out and we pick up the crumbs or better still you sell we will hold then buy into some shit token you come up with coz you did a great job with steem 👍
This sounds exciting already!!
That's a pretty solid team. I'm happy to contribute.
The goal of this group should be no less than to figure out how to get private keys in the hands of over 100 million people with social blockchain leveraging important lessons learned at Steemit.
When ICO would happen?
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that is really cool.
as one of my old bosses used to say:
onward thorough the fog!