Due to popular opinion, @hive.defender has officially closed down!
Image Source dalle -2 I added the joystick!
We're going to let the big whales do what they do best, continue to defend hive the way they like!
We gave it our best shot but came to the conclusion that downvoting just isn’t for a division within HELIOS. Maybe once we have our millions of hivepower we can get into the bullying business, but for now, we’re going to concentrate on increasing our network of friends instead.
Locating AI abuse is a lot harder than we initially thought. Considering that fighting abuse on hive is a pure money-losing venture, the added negative energy it brings towards helios wasn't worth the battle.
Just because Helios isn’t going to employ a department to actively seek out and flag ai spam doesn’t mean that you can’t use our downvote tool if you so desire. Our downvote portal will remain up for anybody to use, the only thing that will change is nobody from HELIOS will be actively initiating the downvotes.
We will still be happy to moderate the downvote system and overlook the users to make sure that no one is abusing our burn-to-downvote system. If anyone needs it, the downvote system is located here: https://www.flag.helios.surf/
Overall running the @hive.defender account was a very exhausting and stressful ordeal. I wouldn’t recommend that position to anyone. We will chalk @hive.defender out as a great learning experiment, nothing more.
Image Source:
Thank you to the hive community for bearing with us while we tinkered with hiveans' livelihoods, & were glad for everyone made it through our ordeal to the other side.
If I could go back in time, would I do it again?
You betcha! Just because we messed up and caused a lot of havoc for ourselves and others, we did have a few wins in there too. I admit it was a little bit fun to dive into the active conversations and debates while trying to moderate the best I could. But in the end, we lost our debates, and HELIOS even got flagged ourselves. Mainly all the conflict that we initiated wasn't less than the overall sum of the effective spam we halted, so in the end that’s why I decided to let our resident @hive.defender go into the ether, to never drop another helios flag again.
Thank you again for your patience, and thank you for helping me decide on the fate of the very first downvote division of helios. Thank you @hive.defender… R.I.P you will be missed!
What do you think?
Take the @soonlambo's poll here: https://alpha.leofinance.io/threads/view/soonlambo/re-leothreads-h5qsxvj5
It's good you took the feedbacks in a positive route.
Since no one from the Helios team claims to initiate the downvotes themselves, I think there needs to be a means to validate that remains to be so on the blockchain. If there is a channel on discord that prevents people from accessing the records that X user from Helios did it, it doesn't help that we just have to take your word for it.
Hive defender was good in concept because it tackled on an emerging issue and we need more activities that decentralizes antiabuse on Hive. The flaw was in the execution because given some gray areas of the issue being tackled, limitation of tools and a lot of time it required to prove anything.
My unsolicited suggestions: If the downvotes turn into a business is a downvote criteria that majority can agree on. Will all downvotes be permitted even if the target post being downvoted does no wrong and the motivation was just out of malice? Is the service open to everyone including anonymous accounts or for whitelisted users? if a whitelist is available, what's your criteria to get into the club? It's a lot to consider but if laid out early and clear, I think it would avoid future misunderstandings.
There are two means of monitoring which accounts initiate a downvote from HELIOS. First of all, an automated comment is always generated on the downvoted post to notify the user from which account the downvote originated. Secondly, all downvote call originations can be monitored here: https://he.dtools.dev/@helios.dburn
Hive defender is a good concept however there are still way too many grey areas when it comes to proving or disproving ai abuse, calculating the threshold of abuse, proving the time it takes to find the abuse, coupled with moral hazard introduced once profiteering and issuing downvotes become intertwined.
We do have a working white list in effect that is "safe" from our downvoter. Our whitelist includes the top 20 Witnesses (and then some), HIVE whales, and many trending authors with a high reputation (generally over 60). We also have a whitelist appeal channel on our discord for users to apply to get on the whitelist.
Our downvoting service is open to all users except "bad actors" on the hivewatchers / spaminator blacklist. Blacklisted users can always be downvoted through our system, however, they can never issue a downvote themselves.
The system is available to anonymous accounts, however, once a user is found abusing our downvote tool they will be blacklisted from using it.
A downvote on a post that was doing nothing wrong and was just the target of malice will not be permitted, and simply be removed. In that case, the user who originated the downvote would lose the HELIOS they burnt to issue the downvote.
The downvote system is not going to turn into a business, HELIOS will never profit directly from a downvote. Users burn HELIOS tokens which they earn through various means, i.e. delegation.
If a user chooses to spend some of their HELIOS to flag a post they deem to be against the Terms and conditions of Hive then their reward is the feeling of satisfaction from making a difference while helping their fellow HELIOS stakeholders (by burning tokens), and helping the Hive community by reprimanding abuse while adding back to the reward pool.
Users might choose to delegate to pool their downvotes with ours to gain a bigger downvote, the extra 20% delegators earn in HELIOS is enough to offset the cost of some % of downvotes, so through delegation users essentially get to issue a certain amount of downvotes "for free" if that's their intent.
In addition, we do plan on issuing some liquid HELIOS & HIVE reward bonuses to users that prove themselves genuinely effective in using our downvoting tool. We currently set aside 5% of our curation rewards to a flag reward fund to share solely with our burn-to-downvote users.
Thanks for spending the time to ask these important questions. You're right that it's better for us to lay out all the facts early to avoid misunderstandings in the future.
Sounds very interesting! :)
Sorry the project didn't make it, but keep that innovative drive and a popular option will be inspired. I feel like AI cheating is coming and I don't know a good way to prevent it. Perhaps what is considered "quality content" will change and the definition of "original content" will also change. People feel like AI generates original and quality content for them to use, even if it's not theirs at all.
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Downvoting is still a sticky business here on Hive. When I was a newbie user I thought it was a good idea to follow a downvote trail, and I almost ended up in a Downvote War against a huge user because he was downvoting everything from everyone who downvote him.
Luckily I talked my way out of it, but nonetheless it was very scary, especially for a new user with almost no experience on Hive.
Never downvote anyone again. LOL
!LOLZ
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I've lost three days already.
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@helios.voter, I sent you an $LOLZ on behalf of @luizeba
(7/10)
Your Helios token was burnt to downvote my post wrongly I didn't use A.I or plagiarise and after challenging him @flagsandwich he proved my point by using it again to downvote another post that's bullying you guy say you won't let the downvoting previlage be abused but it's been abused. Seriously and I know you guys won't response and he's still going to do it again after this comment but I don't care anymore. You guys could check it out @helios.voter you don't just downvote someone with out check If the reason is true or stating the reason of the downvote you refer people to you discord where there is no one to reply. I'm seriously not happy with what has happened.
I believe @flagsandwich replied to you with an explanation stating that the post was overpaid. What we won't do is let a member of the community continually bully any user with downvotes repeatedly without a warrant. We will watch closely to make sure this isn't the case here.
So you believe a 1 dollar vote is being overpaid what about an under paided work have you check the post have you seen my work the post he downvoted the splinterland digital are I spent 3weeks creating that and now it has 0. Isn't that under paid. This is the first time I would be here this that a post is over paid can you downvote a whales account even if he posts a picture and leave him a reason that he was over paid. What's all this so all my underpaid works who would up vote them downvoted is for plagiarism and offender not for overpaid work. Please describe to me what an overpaid work is.
It's all relative to the situation and posts rewards are proportional to an account's stake, so a whale is in a different ballpark.
Sorry, I did just check out your firedwarf post, that is an awesome drawing and I removed the flag on that one.
Huh? Some whales prefer AI generated articles here on Hive? That's sad or disgusting. Indeed these people can be bullies just because they have a lot of HP. Tsk tsk.
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Hey continue the up voting thing as previously used to be done.
That was and remains a great use case.